Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf is a next generation, indie developed, single player and multiplayer golf game. Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf provides a truly immersive experience centered on stunning visuals and hyper-realistic game play. Don't just play golf - play PerfectGolf!
User reviews:
Recent:
Mixed (13 reviews) - 53% of the 13 user reviews in the last 30 days are positive.
Overall:
Mixed (490 reviews) - 67% of the 490 user reviews for this game are positive.
Release Date: May 3, 2016

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Recent updates View all (62)

June 14

Perfect Golf 1.4.0.7 Patch Released

This is primarily a patch to add the functionality to allow tournament hosts to set specific pins for each hole in a tournament round as well as to allow MOPS created using the free online mop builder to work in the game.

Other Fixed items

Fixed Double click Continue
Fixed Right Click in RTSM while settings was up breaking game
Fixed Ctrl Alt M giving a mulligan
Fixed N in Course Carousel coming up as NO

4 comments Read more

June 8

Perfect Golf 1.4.0.6 Patch Released

New Features

Added Show all pins with pin position in array to practice mode

Bug Fixes

Fixed Simulator Subscription cancellations
Fixed practice shot data disappearing when using horizontal motion swing
Fixed steam achievements being awarded to all players in multiplayer
Fixed steam achievements being awarded to players by playing with a computer player
Fixed mesh issues on certain courses as a result of the recent CF Upgrade
Fixed Left Handed players not being given Fade and Draw correctly
Fixed Scorecard Error when playing with more than 5 players
Fixed changes to grid width not persisting throughout game session
Fixed Swingmeter sensitivity settings going down by 0.1 on each start
Fixed Concede button causing game freeze
Fixed Putting out when using sim
Fixed spaces missing on invalid course message
Fixed Practice Screen Menus
Fixed Default Billborad tree distance

2 comments Read more

Reviews

“"Perfect Golf lives up to its name and is the best golf game I’ve ever played despite being in such an early stage of development."”
True PC Gaming

About This Game

Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf is a next generation golf game from Perfect Parallel Studios an independent game developer and published by Perfect.Golf Inc.

High resolution visuals, highly accurate ball flight physics developed using state of the art launch monitors, Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf is the best simulation of golf released to date.

Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf


Acclaimed golf course designer Jack Nicklaus—perhaps best known for his record 18 professional major championship victories in addition to his global portfolio of award-winning courses and host venues for the game’s most significant events - has teamed with Perfect Golf to bring you an all new Golf Game. Expect many of the great golf courses designed by Nicklaus to be released for Perfect Golf in the coming months as well as many designs that never made it to the real world

Game Play Modes


The default game comes with well over 20 different game play modes including StrokePlay, MatchPlay and Skins scoring methods and supports, many team based modes of play including Foursomes and Greensomes (Alternate Shot), Better ball and Scramble

In addition an online MOP editor will be made available post release to allow users to create their own modes of play and share them with the community

Multiplayer


The game has an integrated multiplayer lobby with matchmaking and course checking to give you a seamless experience in finding online players to play against. Visit the lobby and join in the chat and find a game to play, or set up a private game for you and your friends using a password protected online game

Highly Accurate and Detailed Courses / Course Forge


The game comes with over 12 courses inclduing a driving range and a dedicated practice facility. All our official courses are fully georeferenced to the real world so the sun will rise and set in the correct place at the correct time for the day of the year.

Nicklaus Design Course Forge is our Golf Course design software and is used in house by Nicklaus Design for all their golf course designs. You will get to use the same tools that one of the most award winning designers of all time uses. While it will not available at release, pending the conclusion of negotiations with vegetation content developers it will be released very soon. Already there are many user course creations that have been created by the community for the community. Community developed content can be played in Perfect Golf so long as you keep your game updated to the latest version.

Advanced API for Tournament and Swing Integration


We have built an API for external tournament sites to be able to fully integrate into the game for online real time scoring and tracking. Tournaments set up on remote sites will show up inside the tournament lobby giving players a wide range of different tournaments to enter every week from public to private to official Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Tournaments. In addition we also have an API to allow anyone to develop a hardware integration to Perfect Golf. Already people in the community are using these API to work on WII integration and other items. We have several official integrations with Launch Monitor companies and Simulator Systems Integrations are also in development.

Full Controller Support

The game comes with support for almost all controllers. We have not left Controllers as an afterthought, almost everything you can do with a mouse in the game you can do with the controller from moving your ball on the tee to aiming, dropping and moving between main and overhead cameras all without the need to have a pointer on the screen.

Multiple Camera Angles

We provide the player with many choices for Cameras. From the player camera, to the spectator camera to the follow camera there are many ways to watch the game unfold. In addition we have several different replay cameras to choose from after the shot has finished fully integrated into the multiplayer online experience.

Highly customisable Options


Whether you want to change the contrast, brightness or saturation of the golf courses, add a little vignetting, set up your sun rays and lens flares, add a sky scattering effect change the weather, change how far back the camera follows the ball etc pretty much everything is configurable inside the game.

Multiple Difficulty Levels and Swing Types

Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf offers 5 difficulty levels and unlimited assist customisation to allow anyone to set the game up to play as easy or as difficult as they like. Do you like par to be a challenge or do you want to have a shot at birdie on every hole. Whatever your style Perfect Golf has a setting that will work for you.

We also have many different swing types from two swing meters to motion swing with the mouse to real time integrated swing with the controller or mouse. There are several simulation options too.

True Time Of Day

Configure the time of day you want to play and watch the lighting change as the day progresses. Not only that but everything is accurate to real life as the sun will move at the correct angle and rotation for the course being played assuming the course has been properly georeferenced in Course Forge.

Customisable Green Speeds and Course Conditions


Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf offers totally customisable green speeds based on official STIMP measurements from 8 to 14. In addition there are three firmness settings that can be used to set up a different challenge each time you play.

The Free Camera


At any time engage the free camera and go for a wander around the golf course. While you are waiting for your opponent to hit you could be lining up your putt or taking a look down the hole at the green or simply moving to an aerial view of the course to watch your opponent hit. Our innovative free camera lets you take control of the way you want to watch the round unfold.


Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf has been designed from the outset to be a community driven game with regular content and feature releases based on player feedback. We have spent a long time in early access trying to get the game to be the best golf game on the market. We have incorporated many community suggestions during this process.

While Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf is still a work in progress we will continue to develop, update and imporve the game over time.

System Requirements

Windows
Mac OS X
SteamOS + Linux
    Minimum:
    • OS: Windows XP
    • Processor: 2 core duo E8400 @ 3.00 Ghz. 3.00 Ghz
    • Memory: 4 GB RAM
    • Graphics: DX9 compatible video card with 512MB video RAM
    • DirectX: Version 9.0
    • Storage: 3 GB available space
    • Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible
    • Additional Notes: Windows XP requires Unicode to display in menu arrows. Also at minimum spec settings low graphics quality setting must be used in main menu
    Recommended:
    • OS: Windows 7/8.1/10
    • Processor: Quad Core
    • Memory: 8 GB RAM
    • Graphics: GeForce GTX 770
    • DirectX: Version 9.0
    • Network: Broadband Internet connection
    • Storage: 3 GB available space
    • Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible
    • Additional Notes: DirectX 11 Compatible
    Minimum:
    • OS: Maverick
    Recommended:
    • OS: Yosemite
    Minimum:
    • OS: Ubuntu
    Recommended:
    • OS: Ubuntu
Customer reviews
Customer Review system updated! Learn more
Recent:
Mixed (13 reviews)
Overall:
Mixed (490 reviews)
Recently Posted
ddross
( 0.3 hrs on record )
Posted: June 24
This game is too hard to set up, i dont like and asked for a refund, but no response yet from steam, they will probably keep my money
Helpful? Yes No Funny
Bezza | GR
( 26.7 hrs on record )
Posted: June 22
Great game so far, 8/10 imo.

Loving the simulation feel to the game and also the variables that can change your game so quickly.

Worth getting and can't wait to see this game progress.
Helpful? Yes No Funny
cnichol151515
( 121.7 hrs on record )
Posted: June 21
Really do not understand all the negative comments. For those who remember it's as good as links pro 386. Good ball Physics, three click swing works perfectly, good graphics and a large community of courses to download (I now have over 40). Would like to see player stats and looking forward to the course builder. If you like golf games then buy it !
Helpful? Yes No Funny
Stardog765
( 7.7 hrs on record )
Posted: June 11
Loving this game so far. Have been wanting to get back into computer golf again for years since do to back problems I can't play in real life any more. Was a real hard choice between this and TGC Golf but in the end I chose this one and really glad I did. The information released about future development, DLC etc. does not bother me at all. I would much rather pay for future development through DLC then have a game where the devs move on to a whole new game first chance they get. They got to pay the bills ya know? Not sure what people think, they can just continue to add to this game for years to come and never charge for anything?

Just my opinion of course but I look forward to see what they do with this great golf game.

Helpful? Yes No Funny
Drillerman
( 4.3 hrs on record )
Posted: June 8
Still no course creator!!! 0/10
Helpful? Yes No Funny
frad1004
( 2.7 hrs on record )
Posted: June 8
Swing Controller keeps disappearing from screen
Helpful? Yes No Funny
foxemail
( 14.2 hrs on record )
Posted: June 5
Seems kind of strange. Its called Jack Nicklaus golf,yet it comes with Zero of his courses! It in fact has no real courses at all. unless you purchase them separately at $6.95 each. Very rich pricing I would say. Game is not all that bad to play. But still a work in progress (beta) with only 1 golfer ani and most courses user created.
Helpful? Yes No Funny
CaptBusa
( 13.8 hrs on record )
Pre-Release Review
Posted: June 4
If you want a good golf game and not this crap head to WGT windows based game but brilliant.
Helpful? Yes No Funny
sm
( 25.5 hrs on record )
Posted: June 3
it's all in the hips.
Helpful? Yes No Funny
Col. McChiken
( 8.2 hrs on record )
Posted: May 31
So far it seems okay but more needs to be added . I don\'t seem to get any close ups of the balls landing area or the balls roll out . I have to go to replay . This should be automatic after every hit . It should pan in on the ball and at least show a closeup of the landing and rollout . Theres a bird that wistles an annoying catchy tune also . I hope their not done working on this yet cause it could be so much better than just okay . I want options like we had on links386pro and scenery & graphics that justifies the wad of cash I have invested in this desktop . I havent tried multiplayer yet though I have seen names in the lobby so there must be people on it . I recommend it if you get a good sale price .
Helpful? Yes No Funny
Most Helpful Reviews  In the past 30 days
22 of 33 people (67%) found this review helpful
6 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
1.1 hrs on record
Posted: May 30
The most god damn awful pile of garbage golf game I have ever played. 2004 graphics, drops to 6fps on a 4790k/970 in some places. Recently changed the games title to get away from bad press. If you have GTA V, play the golf minigame, it is 100x better than this POS.
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
18 of 28 people (64%) found this review helpful
1 person found this review funny
Not Recommended
14.0 hrs on record
Posted: May 29
I am glad i only paid 20.00 for this game . So i decided to try the golf club game and it blows this away
you can sigh up on the tgc tour. Same clubs for all and they use the handicap system . On the tgc tour you can start out in q school and play to get your pga card
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
10 of 15 people (67%) found this review helpful
Not Recommended
2.7 hrs on record
Posted: June 8
Swing Controller keeps disappearing from screen
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
12 of 19 people (63%) found this review helpful
7 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
13.8 hrs on record
Pre-Release Review
Posted: June 4
If you want a good golf game and not this crap head to WGT windows based game but brilliant.
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
11 of 21 people (52%) found this review helpful
Not Recommended
4.3 hrs on record
Posted: June 8
Still no course creator!!! 0/10
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
Most Helpful Reviews  Overall
96 of 129 people (74%) found this review helpful
5 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
8.7 hrs on record
Posted: May 4
Product received for free
I got this game for free as a birthday gift because I have been a fan of games like Mario Golf Toadstool Tour. It was a fantastic game in the pre-release and the core gameplay still stands. However, as soon as the end product was released the name "Perfect Golf" was changed to "Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf" and micro transactions were added. This seems to range from little things like shirts and pants for your character to golf courses. The prices for this adds up to $250 a year for a season pass?

This game was originally $19.99 before release and now stands at $34.99. I was thinking $20 was too much... this is abysmal. A game developer cannot simply add a $250 microtransactions to a game (PER YEAR?!?) and price the game as $34.99. This is unacceptable. Total cash grab. I cannot believe my eyes.

If this game were to get rid of it's microtransactions and put the price down to about $15 I would recommend it. However, as the current price stands, it is simply not worth the money.
Was this review helpful? Yes No Funny
59 of 71 people (83%) found this review helpful
3 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
143.9 hrs on record
Posted: May 5
Now that the game is fully released i can give a full review

Graphics - 6/10 by modern standards the graphics are quite poor, they chose to use directX 9 along with unity, The Graphics look ok at first but when you look closer you realise how basic they are. Water looks terrible, no 3d grass for light rough and rough, lighting is very basic and the performance is inconsistant from course to course. I have to turn settings down on an I7 4790k@4.6ghz and a amd Fury to maintain 60fps on some courses.

Gameplay - 7/10 RTS is broken, it is way too sensitive, move the mouse back 2 pixels and thats a full back swing at 800dpi* on a 1080p screen, only increasing the screen to 1440p and the mouse DPI down to 400 is the RTS some what controlable,this is using the lowest sensitivity setting in game....

Even then there is no feel and putting is a joke, with the ball rocketing off the face after the smallest slowest movement you can possibly do with a mouse, to top this the game gives zero feedback whilst on the course has to what you are doing right or wrong, the only way to get feedback is to go to the practice area (no putting green btw), and you will get feedback through a launch monitor, not that it will be any use to you as there is zero explination of what the numbers mean, so if you have never been on launch monitor in real life and had the number explained to you, you are screwed basically. This wasn't thought through at all and they listened to totally the wrong people when implementing this.

*Mice used Roccat Kone XTD and Corsair Vengence M65

However mouse swing using the meter isn't bad at all, although it will be very difficult for the beginner. so max assists is recommended..

Presention - 6/10 simple menus very easy to navigate....nothing to write home about

Value - 5/10 Thought long and hard about this, if the game was £14.99 i would say yes the game is good value for what you get, but they have released it at £26.99...and on top of that have release an extra course as day one DLC (if you have DLC ready for day one, it should be in the game at no extra cost) and are planning more micro transactions. So id say this game isn't good value, as of now there is no career or progression system, there is a planned course designer, but has yet to materialise (no idea what its going to be like)...there is online play, and solo rounds, for a golf enthusiast maybe just enough, but for a gamer looking for something to play, £26.99 is going to be poor value.

Overall 5/10 This game offers nothing for the causual/gamer player, the learning curve is very steep, with zero understandable feedback from the game ( A launch monitor is jibberish to the none enthusiast Golfer, even to some Serious golfers), The gameplay is kind of there, you just have to put is stupid amounts of hours to find it, and you will have to go on the forums to find out what the numbers on launch monitor mean....

I do like parts of this game, but i can not recommend it (not at £26.99), so its a thumbs down from me.

Edit... I was banned from the forums for critizing thier micro transactions implementation in this game, the game is on its way to pay to win, with being able to buy balls and clubs that change the way the game plays.....Avoid this game and do not support this GREEDY developer.

Edit... I just found out that this developer is going to make you pay for "major" updates to the game, disguising them as DLC....So this means if you want to keep your game upto date you are going to have to keep sheling out your hard earned cash to do so, and this is after they have the nerve to charge £26.99 for a half finished game.....

Edit... This is a quote from the Dev reguarding the future of the game"Once additional Feature driven DLC is available access to play user created content will be limited to those players who are on the new version." This means courses you create yourself you will not be able to play anymore once the DLC update is released unless you buy it....This is disgusting from the dev its not enough that you have already paid for the game, they just want to fleece you out of more money.....

Devs if you read this, its not the peoples who bought this games fault you underestemated how much this game would cost to develop and its not right to ask them to pay extra for updates, no matter how substantial the update is, The way good developers work is once you buy a licence for a game or piece of software it entitles you to updates for life, unless specifically stated...

This was not the case with this game, you waited until we had paid our money, and then unleased the news that we would have to pay money for "milestone" updates....Sorry but this is morally repugnant on your part, and you have shown that you are just going to milk this community for a long time to come...i really hope more people see through you.

Shame really because your game isn't bad, and if you had used directx11 from the start (oh one of things they want to charge for is porting the game to DX12) and polished the game a little more before releasing it, the game would have sold well and you wouldn't have had to resort to such shaddy practices.
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84 of 112 people (75%) found this review helpful
11 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
1,066.3 hrs on record
Early Access Review
Posted: June 18, 2015
The entire Bug Reporting section of the Perfect Parallel forums, is not even available to the public. A user must register in order to view the Bug Reporting section of the Perfect Parallel forums. Here, try to find it, otherwise: http://www.perfectparallel.com/forum/26-perfect-golf-bug-reporting/

Instead of taking bug reports seriously, the developers have religiously deleted legitimate forum posts, and fabricated TOS violations out of whole cloth... in an obvious attempt to muzzle legitimate criticisms.

When a developer starts deleting on-topic forum posts, devoid of any rules violations, whatsoever... than, they have reached a new low.

The developer has now fully retaliated against these criticisms... by issuing a permanent forum ban; as of December, 19, 2015.

Only, that's not the good part. The good part; is that, the developer actually dredged up a forum post from May, 2015... as a pretext for a permanent forum ban, that has now been issued over 6 months later!

So, basically... Necroban. Here's the screenshot to prove the surreptitious hilarity. If you'll notice, there isn't even anything listed under the all important, "Ban Reason." http://s19.postimg.org/3tdzlgav7/2015_12_19_pg_forum_ban.png

The fact that, a game developer, would actually peruse back over 6 months into a user's post history, as a pretext, to ban them from the forums - and still not be able to come up with a legitimate reason - is both sad, and pathetic... on so many levels.

Forget about the game. One would reasonably expect more professional behavior from the developers.

Nevertheless, here are the rest of the issues with this game:

The controls are clunky; and according to the developers, the distances are intentionally obfuscated. – Have fun charting out distances for hours on end, just to figure out how far to hit the ball.

There exists no tutorial, despite the entire piece of software being anything but user-friendly.

While there does exist an official practice facility, the user is not able to move around, nor follow any shot within said facility.

The sound is somewhat intermittent, with the impact of golf shots oftentimes being completely missed.

The graphics are not entirely terrible, if one is able to use their own imagination... with several obvious gaffes, relating to blending, or the lack thereof; as well as, poor water reflections, and nonexistent edge refraction.

For example, the outline of the rough - that separates different types of rough - often bulges, and causes shots hit there to bump squarely up against the outline of the rough, as if the golf ball were coming in contact with a street curb, as opposed to - thick grass.

Another example; is that the cart paths hover above the ground. The developer has stated this is intended, as it is apparently a workaround to another issue. – Okay.

The latest golfer avatar looks like he's been on the juice... with an over-buffed neck and shoulders, a hunched-over back, and huge biceps. But, the character also clearly has a broken back, broken wrists; and the new swing animation has a terrible hitch in it. – It's all just very amateurish in appearance.

There is no user customization, whatsoever. Each and every user is required to use the exact same character, and the exact same equipment. The only variation being, some horrendous shirt color adjustments. – Anyone interested in wearing an unbranded shirt, that looks like it's from 1985, over and over again? Wait, what... whose turn is it?

There have been ongoing issues with the game physics. – Kind of a big deal in a video golf game.

The developers have repeatedly made unproven claims about the accuracy of their physics engine, as it relates to actual Tour Golf... despite the actual in-game physics being routinely over-corrected, with each subsequent new draft version of this game.

Hitting three-quarter shots makes the ball roll forward excessively, moreso than would be realistically attainable with any given club.

In this game; shorter, more-lofted clubs, will oftentimes actually incur more roll-out, than longer, less-lofted clubs... when struck in the same exact manner. Go figure that one out.

Or, shots struck with more power, right on the sweet spot, will oftentimes inexplicably lose distance... regardless of the trajectory of the shot. Clearly, someone did not apply themselves in Math class.

There have been ongoing issues with ball markers; not showing up, nor being in their correct location.

There have been ongoing issues with gimmes; freezing the game progression entirely... when hitting a par 3 tee shot that lands inside gimme range.

There have been ongoing issues with multiplayer connectivity failing.

There have been ongoing connection issues, which may cause undue stuttering while spectating shots.

There are ongoing issues with lag, and unexplained disconnections.

Seriously... How long is "Early Access" supposed to work as an excuse, to keep releasing a first-draft version of a game that was actually released in early 2015?

The Course Creator has yet to be released. However, some testers have managed to create courses. The issue is that the system is entirely disorganized, causing users to have to download each course from varying download services, and manually extract each file individually into the correct game directory. There are no Auto-Updates in place, which also can cause users to have different versions of courses.

The lobby itself, is setup rather haphazardly, with things like; not enough letter characters showing, to indicate which hole a given user is on, despite the lobby itself supposedly having an indicator for that. Chat boxes oftentimes fail, rendering in-game communication inoperable.

There is no shot clock to dictate a fair pace of play, which is part of the official rules of golf. Since there is no simultaneous play option in this software... the lack of a shot clock becomes a big deal, as multiplayer stroke games tend to run quite long; or at least, much longer than they conceivably should.

It is not possible to convert a grouping to Custom difficulty settings. The difficulty settings chosen must fall under a default set. The alternative is to allow "Any" settings, which creates obvious mismatches.

The putter head is not at any time squared up at address. Not only that, but the putting itself seems to impart far more break than would realistically occur on similar greens, in real life.

The original putting meter has been replaced, along with the entire putting roll physics; while, users have been forced to learn another meter, several months after initial release. Then, the original putting meter was added back as an afterthought, solely on the entry-level of the game.

There have been bugs that have gone on for well over 100 days after being reported... and yet, the developers have had the audacity to claim that there aren't a plethora of new bugs with each one of these first-draft style updates.

Perhaps, if the Bug Reporting section of the Perfect Parallel forums were actually made public, than the public could review the extent of issues with the game, on their own.

Being able to acknowledge and address mistakes does not mean a game is a failure. But, wild over-corrections, as have continuously taken place, in regards to this game... just doesn't pass the eye test.

What's so hard about adding new options, without repeatedly tearing down the continuity of what long-standing users have grown to appreciate about the game? – Apparently, these developers don't have an answer.

“Perfect Golf,” is like a less polished version of the Tiger Woods Golf series. A Poor Man's Tiger Woods Golf, if you will.

It originally showed some promise. But, as of yet, there are too many obvious bugs, ongoing... as well as, glaring physics anomalies; which would compel any sane individual to give it a rousing thumbs down.
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78 of 108 people (72%) found this review helpful
3 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
8.4 hrs on record
Posted: May 4
Not a chance...

The game it self is quite good but it's more aimed to the "Arcade" fans but tries to pass it'self off as a game for the Sim golfers..

Then they have gone and released it and the 1st thing they do is to add DLC's..

So all the "licenced" courses will have to be paid for.. on top of the money you have paid for the game..

Money grabbing ♥♥♥♥ bags!!!!

PS.. You even have to BUY golf balls if you want better than bog standard.. and no. not in game cash.. $1 for the golf balls.. GTFO..

So the 1 course you get that has a license.. Over $4 / £3... For 1 course ????

No. No. No.

Do the whole gaming industry a huge favour.. Boycott this money grabbing game and buy "The Golf Club"

The Golf Club in general is a far far far better game and has the best non paid commontator around.. (I think it's one of the devs and he is SOOOOO sarcastic at time.. You get +3 and he'll say some funny comment, make you laugh and you move on to the next..

This is the poor mans version of The Golf Club.. so suck it up and go get that one instead.
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107 of 159 people (67%) found this review helpful
12 people found this review funny
Not Recommended
1.4 hrs on record
Posted: May 4
Rediculous! You want me to pay 150 bucks for a season pass? WTF? There is absolutely no depth to this golf game. No real way to judge the apropriate striking power for a good shot and the controls overall are just "thick" and "clunky". So disappointed, there is not even a career mode and no skill tree to follow or upgrade your golfer. No options to obtain newer better clubs or clothing, no sponserships, no, no, no, no!!!!!!! NO!
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