PlanetSide 2 is a revolutionary massive scale first-person shooter where soldiers battle as one in strategic, targeted missions against enemy empires in an all-out planetary war. The game challenges the skill and grit of the most seasoned soldier through intense infantry, air, and ground vehicle gameplay.
User reviews: Very Positive (18,665 reviews)
Release Date: Nov 20, 2012

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Recommended By Curators

"Technically astounding mass-scale warfare that spews out gaming fantasy fulfilment. Bring a friend, or you’ll get lonely."
Read the full review here.

Recent updates View all (3)

July 1

Hossin Is Live! Patch Notes for 6/26

Explore a brand new continent with over 80 new bases in a brand new biome.
This is an Early Expedition. Read about what that means in this post from Creative Director Matt Higby:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/next-live-update-news-and-status.190580/

Continent Locking:
Continents can now be locked to a conquering empire in one of two ways:
Dominate the continent by owning at least 94% of the territory.

Win an Alert:
When a continent locks, the conquering empire automatically captures all remaining regions on the continent.
All players on the locked continent will be prompted to redeploy to another continent.
A maximum of 2 continents can be locked at any one time.
Whenever a continent is locked the oldest existing locked continent will automatically unlock.
A Continent Benefit is now only active while the continent is locked.

Continent Benefits have changed:
Amerish gives -50% Infantry Purchases (up from -10% Aerospace Purchases)
Esamir gives -50% Mechanized Purchases (up from -10% Mechanized Purchases)
Indar gives -50% Aerospace Purchases (up from -10% Infantry Purchases)
Hossin gives +25% XP (new) (It's almost like we want you to play there!)
To accommodate continent locking, Global Alerts have been removed from the game, meaning every alert is now specific to a continent
When a continent is unlocked the warpgates on that continent will rotate, and territory will be reset to a default starting configuration for each warpgate. (Tired of your warpgate location? Now you can fix it)
Warpgates will no longer rotate every other week and are now exclusively rotated via continent locking.

Outfits Recruiting:
Do you run an outfit? Looking for some new blood? List your outfit in the brand new recruiting system.
Are you looking to join an outfit? Want to meet some new friends? Find an outfit to join in the brand new recruiting system.
To list your outfit go to the outfit screen and there is a Manage Recruitment button.
To view recruiting outfits, go to the outfits button on the social tab. On the main page is a button to find an outfit.

Outfit Decals:
Your outfit can now select a decal to represent yourselves.
Purchase Infantry or Vehicle Outfit decals in their Depot categories for 100 SC or 250 Certs
Equip like a normal decal. If you’re in an outfit and the outfit has a decal selected, the decal will display as the selected decal.
If you’re not in an outfit, the decal will not display.

Outfit Base Capture:
When your outfit captures a base your outfit’s decal will be displayed on the faction banners at the base, on the scoreboard, and on the map.
An outfit is recognized as being the captors by being the highest scoring outfit during the base’s capture
For now, this score is simply the cumulative score of the outfit members that participated in the base capture (i.e. the scores that are displayed on the scoreboard).

Misc:
The descriptions on the Medical Applicator now list the hotkeys required for healing and reviving.
Adjusted ranges of “Enter Vehicle” and “Equipment Terminal” interactions on Sunderer.
Change reduces overlap and is intended to reduce the chances of accidentally triggering the interaction you don’t want.
When the vehicle is deployed, you will need to get closer to the terminal and closer to the vehicle.
When the vehicle is undeployed there should be no change in the enter vehicle interaction.
A lattice link has been added between TI Alloys and Ceres Hydroponics on Indar.

Bug Fixes:
Desynch fix for multiple situations.
Fixed focus issues with the chat window after hitting escape.
Fixed an issue where thermal optics for the Dual-75 Duster were not set up like other belly guns.
The TR Honeycomb camo will now scale correctly.
Updated the descriptions for Liberator belly weapons to be more accurate with recent changes.
The un-purchasable magazine size certification should no longer appear for the Hyena Missile Launcher.
Camo will now apply correctly to the Bruiser Plating and Scrapper Vanguard attachments.
Kills caused by explosions will no longer grant double experience.
Equipping the Ammunition Package during a weapon reload will no longer skip the reload animation.
Adjusted the Ammunition Package so that it it less likely to continuously shake when thrown on uneven terrain.
Fixed an issue where tank reverse turning speed would change when toggling the ‘Invert Reverse Steering for Tanks’ option.

44 comments Read more

June 4

6/3 Patch Notes

New Membership Perk - Squad Boost
Members in a squad will now provide the entire group with 3% bonus XP

General
• Continent Domination Threshold for gaining a continent benefit is now 94%
• Continent Domination Threshold for losing a continent benefit is now 7%
• Lattice links have been added between all adjacent warpgate-bordering territories.
• Hex regions around the warpgates have been adjusted to fit new lattice links between the warpgate-adjacent territories.
• Added a short deploy timer to Instant Action when a player is dead.

New Ribbons
• Resupply - for resupplying ammunition to friendly players, including vehicle resupplies.
• Air Deterrence - for surface-to-air damage inflicted against enemy aircraft.
• Air Superiority - for air-to-air ESF vs ESF kills.
• Anti-Tank - for destroying enemy tanks.
• Recon - for motion sensor and scout radar assists.
• Spotter - for spot assists.
• AMS Support - for supporting your team with Sunderer AMS spawns.
• Marksman - for infantry vs infantry kills at ranges >= 70m
• Vehicular Combat - for roadkill and ram kills while in a vehicle.
• Point Control - for capturing control consoles and kills around them.
• Savior - for saving your teammates from certain death.
• Objective Support - for overloading, stabilizing, and destroying generators.
• Squad Spawn - for providing a spawn for your squad members via beacon, Sunderer, or Galaxy.
• Deployment - For deploy bonuses from transporting friendly players who go on to earn kills shortly thereafter.
Area Bugs
• Speculative fix for the base flipping.
• Refactored some code that will improve how areas are handled in general (gravity pads, etc).
• Adding significant amounts of logging in case the above two fixes don’t work.

Cert Refund: Optics Incorrectly Deducting Certs
• We performed a grant to replenish certs for a small group of players who were incorrectly charged twice for certain optics purchases.

Implants
• Charger Energy Values have been Increased.
• Drop rates for implants have been reduced.

Bugs Fixed
• Updated Harasser nanite auto repair description to reflect in-game effect.
• Fixed a bug where EOD HUD implants were draining energy while the implant user was dead.
• Darklight flashlight should now be available on NC4 Mag-Shot.
• Sending a message from Outfit Members list will no longer redirect to friends list.
• Fixed some texture stretching issues on the Magrider.
• Infantry decals will appear over armor now.
• You can now resupply grenades in VR Training.
• Crouching then jumping on a vehicle will no longer result in suicide.
• Headhunter camo will now cover the entire body.
• The 3.4x Red Dot sight reticle will now show up better at night.
• Fixed an issue where some items could be removed from you when leaving VR Training.
• Fixed a bug where the Greenhorn Voice Pack was missing.
• The AV mana turret ribbon is now awarded at the intended number of kills.

19 comments Read more

Reviews

“Audacious. Sony Online built a multi-continental world wide enough for thousands of players on three factions to fight in the air, on the ground, and inside bases, and released it for free.”
PC Gamer

“Technically astounding mass-scale warfare that spews out gaming fantasy fulfillment.”
90/100 – PC Gamer

“With versatile classes, deep progression systems and various styles of air and ground vehicles, there’s no shortage of ways to contribute to a fight, and on a coordinated team in PlanetSide 2’s open environments, Sony Online Entertainment’s game of nonstop war can be a truly incredible competitive experience.”
9/10 – IGN

Just Updated


Hossin is a massive new map that will introduce an entirely new type of battle experience to PlanetSide 2. With its swamp-like terrain and natural barriers, players will be challenged like never before. Hossin will add an insane new element and its 80 new bases are scattered throughout, making infantry combat the most important it’s ever been.

In addition to the release of Hossin, there were other brand new features introduced into PlanetSide 2:

  • OUTFIT RECRUITMENT – New streamlined process for building, seeking and joining outfits. Players can choose their crew, their way with this new recruitment tool.

  • OUTFIT BASE CAPTURE – New “ownership” system where the facility / outpost is awarded to the top contributing outfit during capture.

  • CONTINENT LOCKING – Offering an unprecedented level of player control, the Auraxian population can now control which continents are open for contest, when those continents have alerts and when warpgates will rotate.

Connect With The Community!

To stay in the know in this constant evolving MMOFPS, be sure to:

• Like PlanetSide 2 on Facebook
• Follow PlanetSide 2 on Twitter
• Subscribe to PlanetSide 2’s YouTube Channel
• Follow Daily LiveStreams On Twitch
• Visit PlanetSide 2’s Official Wiki
• Subscribe To PlanetSide 2 on Reddit

About This Game

PlanetSide 2 is a free-to-play, massively multiplayer online first person shooter (MMOFPS). Empires fight on a massive scale where soldiers battle in an all-out planetary war on a scale never before seen in stunning, breathtaking detail. PlanetSide 2 battles persist when thousands of players align in this game that challenges the skill and grit through intense land, air and vehicle gameplay.

Across four huge maps, players come together in enormous battles to win control of critical territories and key resources for their Empire. With an extensive skill tree and free-form class-based system, players customize their soldier, weapons and vehicles to match their play-style, as well as the needs of their squad, outfit or Empire. The world of PlanetSide 2 is massive and persistent with every soldier capable of making a difference.



Key Features:
  • THREE WARING EMPIRES: Players will choose to align with one of three unique Empires – the militaristic, authoritarian Terran Republic, the rebellious, freedom-fighter faction New Conglomerate, or the technocratic, alien-influenced Empire Vanu Sovereignty. Each Empire has access to unique weapons, attachments, vehicles, abilities, and more.
  • MASSIVE WARFARE: Battles take place not between dozens of troops, but hundreds; with air and ground vehicles slugging it out alongside squads of troops. Each battleground holds valuable resources and key positions, and the Empire that can conquer (and manage to hold) these territories are rewarded with tech bonuses, greater access to equipment, and more.
  • ENORMOUS MAPS: PlanetSide 2 features four incredible and diverse continent maps with dozens of square kilometers of seamless gameplay space; every inch of which is hand-crafted, contestable space. Whether in open fields, tightly-packed urban centers or enormous outposts, victory requires calculated teamwork and a quick trigger finger to survive the massive battles.
  • PERSISTENCE THAT PAYS: In PlanetSide 2 the war isn’t won by a single base capture. The core gameplay of PlanetSide 2 is about holding crucial territories and controlling resources. Working strategically as a team to secure tactical positions, such as power plants and ammo depots, has long-lasting effects that can shift the tide of battle and provide key rewards and bonuses.
  • CLASS-BASED COMBAT: Players can build their soldier to match their play-style, as well as the needs of their squad, outfit or Empire. With six distinct classes to explore, each combat role, vehicle and weapon has extensive skill trees that will allow players to grow characters laterally, unlocking hundreds of weapons, attachments, equipment, specialized skills, vehicles, and more. Play as one of six distinct classes:

    - Heavy Assault – Rush into the battle ahead, guns blazing. You are the dedicated foot soldier of Auraxis.
    - Light Assault – Go where the Heavies can’t with your short-burst jetpack. Pick a high spot, throw a grenade and surprise your foes!
    - Combat Medic – Keep your fellow soldiers healed- it’s your job to revive fallen comrades.
    - Infiltrator – Stealthy and silent, you are death from the shadows. Whether you choose a knife from behind or a single shot from sniper’s nest, you are the enemy’s greatest fear.
    - Engineer – A crucial support class with the ability to repair important gear including vehicles, terminals, and turrets. Engineers can drop their own shielded turret and mow down advancing troops.
    - MAX – Heavily armored, cannons for hands, and a disposition to match, you are the ruler of the battlefield and a walking mass of armored death.

  • OUTFIT TEAMWORK: Outfits play a very important role in each and every battle. From a small group of specialized soldiers or rapid response team, to a huge clan that can field multiple platoons of hundreds of players, outfits have access to unique customizations– allowing them to create their own identity and manage their reputation and overall role in the ongoing war.
  • VEHICLES & WEAPONS: Players are able to access a huge array of weapons and vehicles which can be extensively customized for player preference or purposed with unique attachments and add-ons earned in game to fit each player’s style.
  • PLAY FOR FREE: PlanetSide 2 is Free-To-Play with an additional in-game RMT marketplace with items that range from cosmetic camouflage patterns and armor paint jobs, to XP accelerators. Items that affect gameplay, such as weapon side-grades will be purchasable via resources earned in-game through gameplay and achievements.
  • VOICE INTEGRATION: Players are able to communicate with their squads both through keyboard and voice chat.

System Requirements

    Minimum:
    • OS:Windows XP
    • Processor:Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 or higher / AMD Phenom II X2 or higher
    • Memory:4 GB RAM
    • Graphics:nVidia GeForce 8600 series or higher / AMD or ATI 4850 series or higher
    • DirectX®:9.0
    • Hard Drive:15 GB HD space
    • Sound:DirectX compatible Sound Card
    • Other Requirements:Broadband Internet connection
    Recommended:
    • OS:Windows 7
    • Processor:Intel i5 processor or higher / AMD Phenom II X6 or higher
    • Memory:6 GB RAM
    • Graphics:nVidia GeForce 540 or higher / AMD HD 6870 or higher
    • DirectX®:9.0
    • Hard Drive:15 GB HD space
    • Sound:DirectX compatible Sound Card
    • Other Requirements:Broadband Internet connection
Helpful customer reviews
117 of 121 people (97%) found this review helpful
503.8 hrs on record
Posted: October 29
Looking to try out this game? It is free to play, so you should definitely give it a shot. Now here's what you'll need to know:

Are you good at battlefield, call of duty, counterstrike, or other first person shooters? If so, good for you, unfortunately that doesn't neccesarily translate into this game that well. I actually started this game being not very good at any FPS's and have gotten considerably better, to where i can comfortably say i am a decent player in this game. The game is so NOT user friendly, that it's learning curve has been called a "learning cliff" by the game's own producer, David Carey. It is something that is always being worked on however. Now, a little about the actual gameplay

I have never ever played a game that offered me this type, this range, this level of gameplay. You have the option to pick from different classes, and choose different guns for those classes. With some effort, you can be the driver or even pilot of one of many different vehicles in the game. As stated before, the game is free to play, and does a good job of doing so. All of the weapons in the game can be bought with the in game currency you build up as you play. Real money can be used to buy these guns, as well as cosmetics such as helmets for your character or different camo's. I personally feel like there is something for everyone in the game; if you like to snipe, you can snipe! You can jetpack around as a light assault, or go gung-ho as a heavy assault! There are so many different things to do.

The game takes a decent chunk of time to get into and get better at playing, but in just a few months it became my favorite game. I found a super fun group of people who invited me right in and now i play with as much as i can. There are always periods of time where the game has many (and i mean many) issues that make it difficult to play. And although the community is quick to blame SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) and demand fixes, SOE has truly created a masterpiece with this game. As long as there are servers, as long as i am a gamer, as long as i can, i will continue to play planetside, and would more than reccomend it to anybody reading this review.
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59 of 67 people (88%) found this review helpful
1,006.6 hrs on record
Posted: November 1
Planetside 2 is awesome. A little difficult to get into, but once you're there, awesome.
I definitely recommend this game! Every minute of my (dare i say extensive) game time has been enjoyable, and I'm still enjoying it today.

Get this game now!!
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28 of 31 people (90%) found this review helpful
219.5 hrs on record
Posted: October 25
This game is a must-play if you're into PvP FPS games. It's free to play, with a reasonable (though not perfect) F2P model. There are five classes (six if you count the MAX suit), each with a fair amount of variety in their gameplay patterns. The game is fun when played solo or with a group. Updates still come out regularly even though the game was released two years ago, and the developers actively communicate with the community via the official forums and reddit.
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26 of 28 people (93%) found this review helpful
105.5 hrs on record
Posted: November 9
The Good Stuff

+Four huge continents as of now (Snow, Swamp, Desert and Forest.)
+A large selection of vehicles.
+A ton of weapons to choose from.
+Six unique classes (Infiltrator, Light Assault, Combat Medic, Engineer, Heavy Assault and the MAX.)
+96 (or more) versus 96 battles for large or small outposts.
+3 factions fighting over the continents. (New Conglomerate, Terran Republic and Vanu Sovereignty.)
+Aircraft Combat, Infantry Combat and Vehicle Combat.

The Not-Good Stuff
-It sometimes takes a while to get into the action.
-Being spawnkilled is not fun.
-Textures are meh, even on Ultra.
-Speaking of graphics, you might need a pretty good build. (I can run it at 60 FPS with smoothing on at high and I use a GTX 770)

Overall Rating
8 / 10

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20 of 21 people (95%) found this review helpful
96.5 hrs on record
Posted: November 13
I'm running around the point with the platoon as a combat medic, and see my teammates going down left and right. I put down the shield regeneration bubble to recover my teammate's shields up and I start reviving my teammates. Also our engineers are supplying our teammates in the front. We all know that we're in a pich and that we need immediately some help. I see several friendly inflantrators sniping down enemies from behind, which is pretty much helping us a lot, but not nearly enough. Then I hear something beautiful behind us and from the Platoon chat. Our max crash is coming, and it's going to push the enemies back by a bit. We might be able to turn this war upside down for now.

This game... It's a fantastic game, especially if you are in a platoon with people who know their stuff and know how to give and listen to orders. It's basically a neverending war in a huge zone, where you capture areas and with some main areas, you will gain bonuses for your faction.

Once a faction is getting together and making up plans, strategies and orders, this game is an incredible game. It's not just a basic futuristic battlefield, but it's something where you really need and want people to stick together and fight together.

I know several friends though, who love to play this game alone than in a platoon. I don't myself see the interest in that, but I guess it will give you more freedom. I just myself love to move in a huge mass with other people, always managing to make people push back and supporting my teammates with either ammo or heal.

When the game was still pretty new (in the first year of it's publishment), it was poorly optimized and gaining certs (which is the free in-game currency) was nearly impossible and a long process. Now though, the game works much better and certs are easier to get, turning the game not to be so pay-to-win anymore. Sure, you need 1000 certs for a gun, but the first guns you're using is pretty much as good as the guns you can only buy with SC.

This game seriously is a must-to-try. It's an interesting game and really has some decent graphics and an amazing gameplay. When I stopped playing this game because of my low FPS, I felt like always coming back, but never being able to. But now, after getting a new computer, I'm running on semi-stable 60fps, even in huge fights. There still are some minor bugs and minus sides, but those don't really affect the gameplay that much. Only sometimes, but not usually.

9/10, you should try this out, even if you're not into huge battlefield games.
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50 of 74 people (68%) found this review helpful
1,209.6 hrs on record
Posted: November 9
game is kinda neat
Was this review helpful? Yes No
21 of 27 people (78%) found this review helpful
8.3 hrs on record
Posted: November 15
i blew up a tank with a pistol

22/10
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70 of 116 people (60%) found this review helpful
2.1 hrs on record
Posted: November 8
I know 99.9 percent won't read this but i am a 5 year old and I play minecraft I wank furiously and snort massive amounts of cocaine when I'm home alone 
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13 of 15 people (87%) found this review helpful
50.7 hrs on record
Posted: October 28
Massive war, endless battles, HUUUUUGE maps, A+ graphics (seriously running this game on max settings will make the girls panties drop), and for the most part a friendly community, all packed into a 100% free MMO!!! I seriously haven't had this much fun playing an online futuristic FPS since Halo 3. The fact that its an MMOFPS makes it a million times better. I can just press "I" and i get dropped into chaos! As a filthy casualy gamer that's also a parent.. I really love that you don't need to spend any money to play and have fun (although i had to buy some cool looking gear and a few scopes so i did drop about $30 so far). Ill be playing this game til PS3!
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9 of 10 people (90%) found this review helpful
1,365.2 hrs on record
Posted: November 9
Gear up soldier, get ready for an awesome experiance on the planet Araxus that takes you across 4 huge continents, jump straight into the action and get yourself tangled up into 200+ player battles, Tank battles across plains, or take to the skies in an asortment of planes. Everything you could ask for from a MMOFPS. AND ITS FREEEEE!!!!

10/10 would spend another 1000 hrs on
Was this review helpful? Yes No
26 of 43 people (60%) found this review helpful
854.5 hrs on record
Posted: November 4
Pretty dope
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6 of 6 people (100%) found this review helpful
20.6 hrs on record
Posted: November 16
Finished VR training Spawn in to a combat zone on hossin, Step out of the teleportere take a look around all the while the sounds of heavy combat going on. I rush out see a big cliff to the left work my way to the top a few times only to get gunned down, try a different route and get my first kill, a notch in the belt. Work furthure and realiz reds My teams color turn around return to the main combat zone die a few more times and hit I, wait 10 seconds get redeployed by a drop pod and realize the zones empty and instant action another area and wind up joining an assault on a small location, Instant action again and wind up in a full scale sige and immideiately make use of my engineer class keeping tanks and MAX's repaired and armed. The entire time multiple engineers were doing the same. Everyone didnt need orders they just knew what the hell to do and they did it well. We reppelled the enemy and shortly after returned the favor after dealing with very persistant left overs and then took the fight to them and in very short order took the position.
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7 of 8 people (88%) found this review helpful
9.2 hrs on record
Posted: November 8
How could you turn down the massive battles this game has to offer?
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4 of 4 people (100%) found this review helpful
16.8 hrs on record
Posted: October 29
Amazing! If you love battlefield or Halo this is the game for you!! Incredible graphics immersive enviroments and a wide range of weapons and vehicles, if you are a hardcore gamer this is deffinately a game for you
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4 of 4 people (100%) found this review helpful
90.2 hrs on record
Posted: November 11
PlanetSide 2 is awesome.
To start off, here some pro's and con's:
Pros:
-Fun, simple gameplay.
-Plenty of people on, I dont see PS2 becoming a dead game anytime soon.
-Theres the mindless fun of COD mixed in with some strategic elements, which is cool.
-Its a huge game. Tons of weapons, large maps, 100+ vs. 100+ battles, PS2 is a big game.
-Pretty friendly community, there are the occansional haters but every community has those.
-Its free and not Pay2Win. +1 right there.

Cons:
-Theres a learning curve. Oh boy.
-The game at max settings destroys computers. Like, with a flamethrower destroy, its crazy.

PlanetSide 2 really is a fun game, theres so much to do. Though, this learning curve is just.. What happens with the game is that new people join, and have problems. Partly because of the graphics settings, partly because of the game itself. PS2 Is different from any other shooters, Battlefield 3 might be like PS2, but its also very different from the game. This difference, plus the settings plus any other problems kill off new players. Its a tough game to get used to really.
I would recommend the game, there is barely any flaws in the game. Most flaws found in other games aren't in PS2. But beware that learning curve, oh man its so friggin' spooky.
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5 of 6 people (83%) found this review helpful
9.4 hrs on record
Posted: October 30
I'm not good at this game at all really, so take my review with a grain of salt. There's something about FPS's with huge maps that I really enjoy. The thrill of having a huge area to do stuff is nice. But for some reason that feeling just does not happen to me when play PS 2. It's hard to explain, it's not that it's a bad game, it is good in it's own rights but I can not come to enjoy playing this game. Yes there were some times when I had fun but it was only during the few times when I was storming into the enemy base and getting lots of kills and for me that kind of fun gets stale really fast. While this game may not be for me, There will definitely be people who enjoy these kinds of games so don't let this review discourage you from trying this out since it's already free to play.
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7 of 10 people (70%) found this review helpful
285.6 hrs on record
Posted: November 4
Amazing game. Great options of classes, playing with tons of people is a lot of fun. Updates over the years have improved the game immensely. Free-to-Play model is fair, not pay-to-win. Real world money can be used to buy skins/helmets/etc.
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40 of 74 people (54%) found this review helpful
590.4 hrs on record
Posted: November 3
Its ok.
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11 of 18 people (61%) found this review helpful
220.4 hrs on record
Posted: October 28
Probably unbalanced, poorly optimized MMO persistent world shooter that has some half-baked idea of logistics and grand strategy but is really just a big game of CoD domination. But as someone who has a 780ti and only plays sniper, it's ♥♥♥♥ing fun.
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13 of 22 people (59%) found this review helpful
182.7 hrs on record
Posted: November 1
Well I enjoyed the game for a while. Even subscribed (it turns out). I brought what I thought was a one month subscription to this game. Unfortunately it turns out it wasn't a one month but a recurring one. At least that's what they said when I asked for the money back as I had stopped playing the game months earlier. After demanding it back they basically said “Then sue us!”. As they're a US company and I'm in the UK even trying to get the money back would be massively expensive and they know it. I was very hesitant about paying for a Sony game after they root kitted millions of PCs (google it if you don't believe me) and it turns out I was right not to.

Summing up: Don't pay Sony money they aren't nice people in my opinion.
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